Merry Christmas to Peter Wilson. When it was suggested that Peter Wilson should be independent of the old board so that we can have a fresh start Peter responded with "That's your issue". Summary of the meeting here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=594
A good summary of where we are up to by Joe Aston of the AFR, linked to from here: viewtopic.php?f=5&p=4137#p4137
If you are new to this website read the story so far: viewtopic.php?t=321#p1793
Check out some of the AFR articles, too many to list and check out some of the ABC reports: http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 215-h055ej http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 211-h02x1d http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/the ... s,/8626662
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All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

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Jfa220854
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All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Jfa220854 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:20 pm

I have added this topic, hopefully with permission from the nakedadmin webmaster guru who I hope will allow this new topic, to give all CPA members an opportunity to comment on all the issues that have been raised and debated and still need to be resolved.

I think this website was established for uncensored communication between members, so lets get some communication going. I am not sure how many members CPA has, 160,000 ?? plus or minus 44,000 or whatever, but it seems only a hand full have any idea on what is going on. I am not very good with math calculations, but I think less than one per cent of members have voiced any opinion on this issue so far.

If Brett is committed to this, and is getting funding (donations to support the cause), then maybe he can asked the AFR if they will donate a full page spread asking all CPA members to join this forum and post what they are thinking. AFR seem to be supporting CPA so I am sure they will be willing to help.

Warning and disclaimer. Some of the comments above are provocative and are meant to be so. I am of the opinion that a "Spanish Inquisition" is being carried out without due process.

I happen to agree with most of the inquisition's questions, but I disagree with the assumption of guilty without trial.

Please lets see the system work and this situation is resolved.

cheers

JFA

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nakedadmin
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by nakedadmin » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:02 pm

Jfa220854 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:20 pm
I happen to agree with most of the inquisition's questions, but I disagree with the assumption of guilty without trial.
You know it's not all about criminal guilt. There are subjective decisions about how to organisation is run. But it would be nice if they would comply with the corporations law. ASIC is doing an investigation.

It's probably not a criminal act to lose the trust of your members or commission a review by someone not really independent. That does not mean the members should accept it though.
Jfa220854 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:20 pm
I think this website was established for uncensored communication between members, so lets get some communication going.
The communication has been going gangbusters on here since it was started late March. I think this is probably the only discussion board for members of CPA Australia that people can actually express their opinion without CPA Australia deleting comments they don't agree with. Although I have noticed that the linked in group is having a bit of a resurgence but the concerns about moderation continue with one comment that a member reported was deleted, I think because it linked to this site. Although the moderators of that discussion board do allow links to other sites, but really what would you expect.

The linked in group has also got very few supporters for the Directors and execs. We have even less. We've only had 2 people (including yourself, Jfa220854) that have been critical of us. Interestingly neither really supported CPA Australia. It's not representative, because CPA Australia would probably have about 1 or 2 in a 100 members support them with 9 or 10 on the fence and the rest would support change. I have deleted a couple comments where a discussion got a bit heated but the main reason for there being no supporters of CPA Australia on this forum is that there really is very little support for them.
The Naked Webmaster

CG9999
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by CG9999 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:45 pm

All, it is disappointing that there is so few opposing comments supporting the current actions of the Board.

As a member/supporter of the "rebels" I want change but also would really like to understand/hear the argument for the status quo.

As I have mentioned to my Divisional GM I would have preferred this was played out internally, however the stoney silience and lack of non-political/spin debate/answers from the Board/CPAA Organisation forced this into the public sphere.

Please status quo-ers share your views

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Brett Stevenson
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Brett Stevenson » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:22 am

:mrgreen: Let me just make some quick comments on post jfa220854
I think this website was established for uncensored communication between members, so lets get some communication going. I am not sure how many members CPA has, 160,000 ?? plus or minus 44,000 or whatever, but it seems only a hand full have any idea on what is going on. I am not very good with math calculations, but I think less than one per cent of members have voiced any opinion on this issue so far.

If Brett is committed to this, and is getting funding (donations to support the cause), then maybe he can asked the AFR if they will donate a full page spread asking all CPA members to join this forum and post what they are thinking. AFR seem to be supporting CPA so I am sure they will be willing to help.
1. When you make a comment like "so let's get some communication going", it strikes me that you are being intentionally obtuse to what has been said on this website for the last few months. It's an odd statement.
2. Why would the AFR be expected to advertise this site? Your suggestion makes me think you have some ulterior motives. Not the ABC? Not The Australian? The "AFR seem to be supporting CPA" - this is an obtuse statement. I suggest you are not only "not very good with math calculations" (somewhat surprising for an accountant perhaps given the illustration used is just basic addition and subtraction) but also not very good at coming out and saying what you really mean.
3. You would know if you even given just a cursory glance to this website that the 45,000 growth figure in the last four years given by the board in their 31st May memo was a lie. That has been proven whether looking at the Members Register or the Annual Reports.
4. You would also know that communication with the vast majority of members on these issues has been hampered by the censorious approach of the CPA leadership (just look at the CPA Australia website for starters to see this). One trusts you are sharing this site with your contacts to spread the communication.

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The Cyclist
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by The Cyclist » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:06 am

Jfa220854 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:20 pm
I am not sure how many members CPA has, 160,000 ?? plus or minus 44,000 or whatever
I am not very good with math calculations,
JFAA 220854
And you are allowed to obtain a FCPA denomination with that statement !. Holy cow how low has this organisation become when an Fellow of the CPA can't even look at some numbers and add up or subtract ! I'm glad no one i know use's your services.
Last edited by The Cyclist on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Nude CPA
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by The Nude CPA » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:10 am

Jfa220854 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:20 pm
I think this website was established for uncensored communication between members, so lets get some communication going.
There is close to 2,000 posts already.

JJF
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:19 am

Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by JJF » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:13 am

JFA, I think you need to put this site into perspective.

Its a website not a court of law!!!!

Members who have the right to express an opinion about the organisation they are members of have raised legitimate concerns and have been prevented from raising those concerns through other channels.

More than that have been threats of intimidation, bullying and harassment.

Whats wrong with a bit of passion about an organisation many of us have members for a very long time. I was (and still am) proud to be called a CPA 17 years ago but have been utterly disappointed by the antics of Malley and co for the last few years!! Are you know saying that I shouldn't say anything?

If you want all members to have a say contact head office and ask why Fridays announcement was not sent out to ALL members by email? Even better ask for an EGM? et they will run away from that one!!!

At the end of the days it is facts that win arguments - and the current Board seem to be lacking in that. There is no strategy, no path forward for the profession just lots of money for Malley to interview celebrities.

No one is forcing you to post here or read the site posts.

Your arguments are a bit confusing - you say you support all the issues raised but them are worried about due process. What would you suggest?

Ultimately, all this will have to be resolved by either the AGM/EGM with resolutions voted on by members - how is that for due process?

Sunkcost
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Sunkcost » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:30 am

Jfa220854, what sort of trial are you expecting? The Directors have refused to disclose any information requested, they have changed the constitution so they elect themselves and members have little ability to influence, they have moved the AGM to Singapore to avoid being questioned, they had to be forced through the legal system to release a members register. It is clear the leaders of our organisation do not want scrutiny and we are now in a ridiculous position where the only people they are answerable to are themselves.

Its time you pulled your head out of the sand and acknowledged the facts, the question now is not if they are guilty, it is how guilty are they?

The reason this forum needed to be set up is because the constitutional changes made by these directors means the only way to make them accountable is to make other members aware of the issues and force them to disclose the information they have been hiding. Now its clear that they were hiding a lot!

In another discussion thread you asked the question if the people pointing out the issues are creating negative media coverage. Well it is really disappointing that an accredited accountant is questioning whether or not it is wise point out issues due to what others think. You have an obligation in your role as an accountant to do the right thing and ask questions when you see red flags. The only ones who are responsible for the negative media coverage are the directors who made it possible by doing the wrong thing in the first place.

Jfa220854
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Jfa220854 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:11 pm

Brett Stevenson wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:22 am
:mrgreen: Let me just make some quick comments on post jfa220854
I think this website was established for uncensored communication between members, so lets get some communication going. I am not sure how many members CPA has, 160,000 ?? plus or minus 44,000 or whatever, but it seems only a hand full have any idea on what is going on. I am not very good with math calculations, but I think less than one per cent of members have voiced any opinion on this issue so far.

If Brett is committed to this, and is getting funding (donations to support the cause), then maybe he can asked the AFR if they will donate a full page spread asking all CPA members to join this forum and post what they are thinking. AFR seem to be supporting CPA so I am sure they will be willing to help.
1. When you make a comment like "so let's get some communication going", it strikes me that you are being intentionally obtuse to what has been said on this website for the last few months. It's an odd statement.

Maybe, but I am highlighting that what is posted on this website seems to be one sided. Seems everyone on this website have already passed judgement and hence anyone who disagrees is wrong.

2. Why would the AFR be expected to advertise this site? Your suggestion makes me think you have some ulterior motives. Not the ABC? Not The Australian? The "AFR seem to be supporting CPA" - this is an obtuse statement. I suggest you are not only "not very good with math calculations" (somewhat surprising for an accountant perhaps given the illustration used is just basic addition and subtraction) but also not very good at coming out and saying what you really mean.

I would love to know why AFR is so intent in pursuing this issue as well as your relationship and involvment with AFR? My lack of knowledge of math is a jab at accountants who only concentrate on adding and subtracting with knowing and asking why. Then again excel does most of my math.

3. You would know if you even given just a cursory glance to this website that the 45,000 growth figure in the last four years given by the board in their 31st May memo was a lie. That has been proven whether looking at the Members Register or the Annual Reports.

I am not disputing this. Also you would know that statistics and numbers can and are used to support or refute any argument.

4. You would also know that communication with the vast majority of members on these issues has been hampered by the censorious approach of the CPA leadership (just look at the CPA Australia website for starters to see this). One trusts you are sharing this site with your contacts to spread the communication.

Yes I am. But you need to stop thinking and acting like you and the subscribers to this website are now somehow empowered to take over CPAA. Seems you are appointing potential directors and others to lead a new organisation. Brett slow down, you have raised some valid concerns but this is not the end of the world.

Again my comments are without anger and I hope all the issues raised will be quickly resolved.

Jfa220854
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Jfa220854 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:18 pm

The Cyclist wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:06 am
Jfa220854 wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:20 pm
I am not sure how many members CPA has, 160,000 ?? plus or minus 44,000 or whatever
I am not very good with math calculations,
JFAA 220854
And you are allowed to obtain a FCPA denomination with that statement !. Holy cow how low has this organisation become when an Fellow of the CPA can't even look at some numbers and add up or subtract ! I'm glad no one i know use's your services.
Accountants don't need to add or subtract they only need to know the result. Please don't ride carelessly as you may fall off your bike.

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GenYCPA
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by GenYCPA » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:18 pm

H Jfa220854,

I hope you continue to back open discussion between members. I, like you, would love to hear what people have to say for the status quo and believe this will lead to more constructive outcomes.

I would like to state though that most CPA members I have talked to recently fall into one of two categories:
  • They are at most vaguely aware of the current debate and do not have an opinion on the matter; or
  • They are aware of the debate and support the majority (but not all) of the views and opinions expressed on this website
I have personally been attempting to take a considered and calculated approach to reviewing the issues and have found it's hard for me to pinpoint the core problems.

It is my belief that most of the issues raised, however serious, are simply a direct result of the governance structure and board strategy. Whether Alex Malley is a symptom or a cause is still to be determined but the long association and lack of independence with the board, including his tenure as a board member before joining the executive, leads me to believe he is more likely part of the cause.
Yes I am. But you need to stop thinking and acting like you and the subscribers to this website are now somehow empowered to take over CPAA. Seems you are appointing potential directors and others to lead a new organisation. Brett slow down, you have raised some valid concerns but this is not the end of the world.
Do not forget that members are empowered to change the constitution and determined how members, the board and the executive should all interact. All members will have the right to participate in deciding the future of CPA Australia - they simply need to choose to exercise that right.

Also - have a little faith in the membership. While a few non-accountants have raised the CPA media coverage with me most seem to be completely unaware or simply do not care what is going on in our profession. Whatever happens, I believe CPA Australia will be stronger for it.
Robert McDowall CPA | Partner | Arabon Accountants
CPA Australia Queensland Divisional Councillor

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-mcdowall/
Join the conversation on the CPA Members Group on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/groups/103561

Jfa220854
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Jfa220854 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:24 am

I fully agree with you Robert. The thing that really annoys me is that the media is creating it's own news and many on this website believe, without question, that it is all true. The truth will eventually come out after the facts are proven to be true but until then full rational debate is not possible. Cheers.

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Brett Stevenson
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Brett Stevenson » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:41 am

With all due respect jfa220854 that is.cobblers. You haven't read a thing about what is exposed. That is a copout trying to sound so professional!

deaneus
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by deaneus » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:02 am

Jfa220854 wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:18 pm
Accountants don't need to add or subtract they only need to know the result. Please don't ride carelessly as you may fall off your bike.
I'm amazed that someone would have the time and inclination to troll a site for accountants.

Unless you're in the employ of CPA Australia.

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The Cyclist
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by The Cyclist » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:22 am

Jfa220854 wrote:
Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:18 pm



Accountants don't need to add or subtract they only need to know the result. Please don't ride carelessly as you may fall off your bike.
JFAA 22085 . I think you missed your true calling by concentrating on the staid world of finance and accounting. Shaun Micallef is looking for talented comic writers and I'm rolling on the floor in spasms of laughter from your last post. Keep it up mate. Pure genius!

Time4Change
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Time4Change » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:28 am

Please, let's remain professional and respectful of each other. We have a bigger cause to look after. Everyone is welcome to have an opinion and we respect their opinion. Our main goal is to tackle the real issue at CPA and ensure we regain our association. We are all members of the association and together we can stand stronger.

Jfa220854
Posts: 27
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Jfa220854 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:11 pm

Totally agree with. I will refrain from further flippant comments. Let's hope this is resolved quickly and without further damage. Now where is my calculator. Sorry last one I promise.

chuck_meister
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by chuck_meister » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:55 pm

Given our role as accountants, we are called to exercise professional scepticism, to review, to check assumptions, to run our own independent analysis and calculations. Each individual can by referring to source documentation such as the constitution, annual reports, the corporations act etc, confirming others members analysis or performing your own analysis can come to a informed conclusion about the veracity of what has been presented in the press and fellow members.

Wendy Shelton
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by Wendy Shelton » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:53 am

Time4Change wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:28 am
Please, let's remain professional and respectful of each other. We have a bigger cause to look after. Everyone is welcome to have an opinion and we respect their opinion. Our main goal is to tackle the real issue at CPA and ensure we regain our association. We are all members of the association and together we can stand stronger.
In another thread the observation was made yesterday (21st June 2017) that the number of posts has dropped off. Sadly, I am not surprised. Reading through some of the posts a level of denigration and aggression has crept into the communication which has been unpleasant to read and has not aided informed debate. I know of one person who has ceased to contribute to this site as a result of the poor tone of discussion. If there is one, there are probably others.

I believe this site came about as a result of the CPA Australia communication channels blocking opinions contrary to the official line. For this site to fall into the same trap is disappointing. I think contributors need to be able to feel free to express themselves but do so using good manners. We are, afterall, working towards the same goal, supporting CPA Australia into the future. Not everyone is experienced with articulating their arguments and we need to be supportive of our colleagues who are not clear in their arguments or lack evidence to support their views. In drawing out their reasons we will all gain insight as to how differing views come about. I don't think contributors expressing views that align with the current CPA Australia rhetoric should be labelled as trolls (which was said in another thread). The Executive and remaining board members will not be the only people amongst the 155,000 (or however many members there really are) who hold those views. When I studied introductory accounting many years ago, the joke used to be that if you had 5 accountants in a room looking at financial information, you would get 6 different calculations for profit. We all interpret information differently and I am keen to read the reasoning behind opinions, not see dissent silenced. There will be times when a debate will end with "we agree to disagree" and that is ok.

I would like to suggest that the header location at the top of the website include a reminder that everybody is free to contribute to the discussions but they should be professional in their communication. Our motto is Integrity. Let's use it! ;)

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nakedadmin
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Re: All members are welcome to say what they think. I think.

Post by nakedadmin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:47 pm

Wendy Shelton wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:53 am
I believe this site came about as a result of the CPA Australia communication channels blocking opinions contrary to the official line. For this site to fall into the same trap is disappointing.
No we have not fallen into the same trap. Very few comments have been deleted and the user that was banned the other day was really just testing the limits of what they could get away with in terms of personal attacks. Constructive criticism is welcome. Personal attacks are not.

There are few supporters of CPA Australia management here because there are not that many of them. Also the few of them would likely not be interested in joining. I think we probably all sound more negative than we really are because we are focused on the problems and how to fix them. In reality we all want CPA Australia to succeed. I'd agree that the website is not necessarily a balanced view of the membership, but let's face it, we are here for a purpose.

Also we're not perfect. With the little resources available I think we are doing ok. Also the collaboration that is happening on this website has been very valuable.
The Naked Webmaster

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