Merry Christmas to Peter Wilson. When it was suggested that Peter Wilson should be independent of the old board so that we can have a fresh start Peter responded with "That's your issue". Summary of the meeting here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=594
A good summary of where we are up to by Joe Aston of the AFR, linked to from here: viewtopic.php?f=5&p=4137#p4137
If you are new to this website read the story so far: viewtopic.php?t=321#p1793
Check out some of the AFR articles, too many to list and check out some of the ABC reports: http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 215-h055ej http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 211-h02x1d http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/the ... s,/8626662
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AGM Day - Live Feed

Discussion about the proposed resolutions to be put to the AGM in May 2018
MSharif
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:19 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by MSharif » Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 pm

Only about 6,000 - 6,500 people voted. Out of 120,000+. That's only 5% of total member votes. Is that normal? I'm a bit surprised that 95% of the votes were missing in action, or am I misunderstanding something?

Magnet
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:18 am

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Magnet » Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 pm

Absolute whitewash.

Proxy harvesting.

I just find it so hard to fathom that the board can do whatever they like and there are no consequences.

deaneus
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by deaneus » Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 pm

MSharif wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 pm
Only about 6,000 - 6,500 people voted. Out of 120,000+. That's only 5% of total member votes. Is that normal? I'm a bit surprised that 95% of the votes were missing in action, or am I misunderstanding something?
It's member apathy, plus a whole bunch of people who don't think voting changes anything.

Basically, we're fucked.

deaneus
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by deaneus » Tue May 22, 2018 11:39 pm

Magnet wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 pm
I just find it so hard to fathom that the board can do whatever they like and there are no consequences.
The way of the world.

deaneus
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by deaneus » Tue May 22, 2018 11:45 pm

wilson3.jpg
wilson3.jpg (30.61 KiB) Viewed 571 times

deaneus
Posts: 188
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Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by deaneus » Tue May 22, 2018 11:56 pm

The thing i find funniest is, if we're to believe those proxy votes were not harvested, then after everything that's happened, everything, 6,000 members took the time to vote to say we trust the board that was installed by the old board who did such an amazing job of trashing the brand, and not the people who discovered all of this.

That's less believable than any of the tripe Alex dished up at his best.

cpasteve
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 9:24 am

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by cpasteve » Wed May 23, 2018 9:14 am

Can I just say, we're all feeling disheartened and frustrated, but to those on here who have done so much work off their own bat to have a crack, thank you. It's appreciated extremely by the members who give a sh!t. There's not much more you could have done.

I've had issues with a board of a small charity in the past, and this reminds me so much of that on a bigger scale. One wonders if their heads are so far up their backsides that they think they are right and doing the best thing, or the culture of boards breeds that attitude to protect and further their careers. I just want to slap them, why can't they see what we all can. This organisation could be great, it could have addressed the issues of the previous board and been the envy of other accounting bodies, instead it's just more of the same. Nigh on 20 years as a member, and this will be my last year. I held out hope that things would turn around, but last night showed that won't happen.

chuck_meister
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:58 am

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by chuck_meister » Wed May 23, 2018 9:24 am

The question is what now?

It is clear things have gone backwards.

1. The appointments council where more than half of the membership (ie VIC and NSW) only have 15.4% of the vote.
(It reminds me of how Rupert Murdoch controls the majority through special structures).

2. Any dissenting view regardless of its merit or the simplicity of a response required is "taken on advisement". In this case it becomes the ironic opposite where it is ignored entirely, or the "deeply consider" part is likely to involve punitive action upon the members! How hard was it for the chair to say that "no member will be retaliated against" for expressing their views!

3. Oppression. It feels like Russian elections "lite". The board representing the ruling party is able to deploy all the assets of the state, whilst hobbling all opposition through procedural means, unequal communications and or manipulation of votes. The use of proxy harvesting is akin to stuffing ballot boxes. Statements of "more than 75%" support for the first four resolutions make it sound like you won the popular vote, even it the turnout was only 5%!

4. Any further attempts by members will be squelched by points 1-3.

Bring on a royal commission into governance of not for profits.

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Stomper
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:55 am
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Stomper » Wed May 23, 2018 9:47 am

chuck_meister wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:24 am
Statements of "more than 75%" support for the first four resolutions make it sound like you won the popular vote, even it the turnout was only 5%!
As I pointed out, the Board resolutions passed with 3% of the membership - hardly a mandate and a poor reflection on the Board's ability to engage with the membership. One wonders what the outcome would have been had alternate views being given the same level of support as the favored, or if the Australian Divisional Councils had engaged in the debate on behalf of their constituents.

The fact that we achieved over 2,000 votes in support of member resolutions was quite a feat, under the circumstances.

“first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”

Not long to go......

Oh, and 3% is less than the 5% required to call an EGM - the threshold the Board have set for minimum engagement - the irony!

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Stomper
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Stomper » Wed May 23, 2018 10:36 am

deaneus wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:56 pm
The thing i find funniest is, if we're to believe those proxy votes were not harvested, then after everything that's happened, everything, 6,000 members took the time to vote to say we trust the board that was installed by the old board who did such an amazing job of trashing the brand, and not the people who discovered all of this.

That's less believable than any of the tripe Alex dished up at his best.
@deaneus - only 4,500 supported the Board - 35% of the votes for the member resolutions were against the Board - 117,500 members were disengaged
CPA agm resutls 2018 page 1.GIF
CPA agm resutls 2018 page 1.GIF (63.98 KiB) Viewed 496 times
CPA agm resutls 2018 page 2.GIF
CPA agm resutls 2018 page 2.GIF (58.14 KiB) Viewed 496 times

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Red_Ferrari
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Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Red_Ferrari » Wed May 23, 2018 12:03 pm

deaneus wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:30 pm
Peter Wilson, having a sook now - "i'll reflect on the tape" RE recriminations against members who have spoken out

Who you gonna sue for defamation Peter? The members?

Proxy harvesting, wins again?
Tell him he's dreaming. He'll do nothing of the sort. The defendant will immediately subpoena Link for copies of all the proxies and we'll find out where they all came from. The next subpoena will be for a listing of the ip addresses for those proxies which were lodged online. The fact that HRH refused to supply any details at the AGM must surely mean something rotten is going on. There's no other explanation for their continual stonewalling.

We're all wasting our time with this mob. The current board were appointed by the Representative Council, not members (despite the truly remarkable attempts by HRH to dress it up as a some sort of vote by members), and this will continue ad nauseum and ad infinitum. Nothing will change except the date on each morning's newspapers.

The fact that no-one at the Melbourne HQ, not one single person, has turned whistleblower to tell us what's really going on in there is simply remarkable.

As for ASIC, they will do nothing about last night's whitewash. The lawyer who wrote the script for the meeting deserves a gold medal, as does HRH for sticking to it come hell or high water. After the votes were taken and the meeting moved to general business/discussion, could a member move a motion that the Chairman be replaced; or would that've been ruled out of order?

Now we all know how the Christians felt, all those years ago, when they were ushered into the coliseum.

deaneus
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by deaneus » Wed May 23, 2018 1:33 pm

chuck_meister wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:24 am
Bring on a royal commission into governance of not for profits.
Bingo.

It's time.

It's the next port of call after the Banking RC is complete. Time to clean up Australian Governance.

Nearlythere
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Nearlythere » Wed May 23, 2018 2:36 pm

Good job those who put the cat amongst the pigeons.

For what it is worth, and from what I have read to date, I think that there is substantial evidence of wrongdoing both in the past and at present. Maybe too much.

Anyhow, my thoughts would be that this needs to be put aside at present and maybe focus on asking some simple questions like how does the CPA relate it's performance to its vision: "CPA Australia is known for being the world’s best member service organisation". What does 'best' mean? How does this get converted into creating a competing not for profit financial services organisation. They are here to serve the members (see vision), not become active members themselves.

Even more bizarre is the goal that goes hand in hand with this vision "To maximise the share of people who want a career built on professional accounting skills" so to create the best member service organisation in the world, they are going to get as many bums on seats as possible? 'Best' has now be transplanted to 'most'. No mention of quality of member in all of this. How does the number of members enhance the service? It does not for any other CPA e.g. competition, more chance of diluting quality. If the goal is about getting more money in by having a larger membership then how does this serve the membership? Fee reduction? Cheaper PD costs? Cheaper study fees?

Anyhow, more view of course. The best member service organisation that can only get 5% max of voters at the most important AGM for years is a monumental failure at best.

I know most has been said, and there are far more intelligent people out there fighting the cause, but the doom and gloom is a bit over the top e.g. the CPA name is mud. Good luck all. Will pay more attention next time:

Matt

Nearlythere
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Nearlythere » Wed May 23, 2018 2:46 pm

PPPPPPs

Cut Professional Development Costs, That would get cosy CPA's attention I would think? Just saying

Nearlythere
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Nearlythere » Wed May 23, 2018 2:54 pm

Actually have you guys put together an alternative plan for the CPA? Like reduce PD costs etc instead of junkets and Directors Ferrari's? I am sure over time you could track down a lot of CPA's...

Magnet
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:18 am

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Magnet » Wed May 23, 2018 3:07 pm

My hope is now that the Transition Strategy Team (TST) go ahead with their plan to use the Corporations Act to have a Court appoint a provisional liquidator where "directors have acted in their own interests, or where the affairs of a company are being conducted in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of members".

I this was mentioned last year and just the threat of this action basically forced the old board to resign.

Nearlythere
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Nearlythere » Wed May 23, 2018 3:17 pm

From Geronimo
Despite fighting the good fight, quite clearly, the deck is stacked and we are not going to achieve any meaningful change.
This is what happens when you have a disinterested and disengaged membership - you get a board that can do whatever it wants - and does.

Get the membership. Seriously, Geronimo is right. Offer an alternative. Entice them to pay attention. These service organisations are full of corporate types and probably will be even if this board is ousted. 'Run by Member, for the Members". Not $1 mill plus executives.

dlb
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:20 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by dlb » Wed May 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Congratulations to everyone, especially Brett Stevenson and his Group who exposed the scams in the first place with the previous Board and the others who put resolutions to the AGM yesterday. It's ironic that the current Board owe their positions to the "Financial Review" and Brett for getting the previous mob out and they didn't even thank Brett. That's typical from the current mob!

Some observations of the AGM yesterday:

1. The members who brought resolutions to the meeting in hindsight should have combined their resources, albeit, I still think they would have lost. Reminds me of the Republic referendum in 1999 where Australia wanted to change but the republicans were divided and John Howard took advantage of this fact!
2. Joh Bjelke Petersen the late Queensland Premier would have been proud because the gerrymander is back! The larger divisions (e.g. Victoria and NSW) now have less of a say than say Europe going forward!
3. I can't believe how orderly the members were in the face of such unethical conduct by the Board. The previous Board has been replaced by a new lot of elites whose conduct looks less egregious than the old Board but they are carpetbaggers nonetheless. No wonder Pauline Hanson and Donald Trump are getting a run these days, people have few alternatives left. We should have behaved liked the CFMEU. The Board took advantage of our professional behaviour.
4. I spoke to Brett at the end of the meeting and he said he has no appetite to continue the fight but Ben Cohen does and he brought with him the retired Auditor General of Victoria (Chas Baragwanath) and Elizabeth Alexander (CSL Chair I think), both walked out in disgust before all the resolutions were voted on when they knew the fight yesterday was lost.
5. Peter Wilson claimed he conducted member engagements forums, what he didn't say was Member concerns on direct voting was ignored and the Board view prevailed anyway. The exercise was a salve to show they were listening and in reality a Proxy harvesting exercise.
6. To call an EGM we need about 6000 members on side or we wait until next year's AGM but with Proxy harvesting we'll need about 20,000 members to support some of the resolutions next time around. Is this possible?

A sad day but is this just the end of the beginning?

Nearlythere
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Nearlythere » Wed May 23, 2018 4:03 pm

Why not? Put the pressure on CPA. Members need to nominate a method of receiving communications, including voting forms (by email). I am pretty sure that handing them out at "CPA events" overseas again would be hard to hide. Pressure points. You have the names of members, I am sure with a bit of legwork and linkedin etc you could find a lot of them.

Clogs
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: AGM Day - Live Feed

Post by Clogs » Wed May 23, 2018 4:50 pm

I would first like to thank Brett Stevenson, Jen Dalitz, Glenn Hasselman, Andrew, Ben Cohen and many other CPA members who have worked endlessly to bring much needed change to our (yes, our CPA although the board seems to think differently) CPA organisation. There have been some major wins, but last nights’ AGM proved that there is still a long way to go.

Unfortunately, member apathy made it a very easy win for the board. I cannot make up my mind, whether I am more disappointed about, the lack of interest from the general membership, or about the lack of interest shown by the board, in bringing genuine and much needed change to the governance of CPA Australia.

Last night the CPA members got not what they needed, but what they deserved. The board of directors were able to dismiss, important member resolutions, which would have delivered important changes, due to members' general indifference (excluding those members who attended the AGM or voted by proxy).

The general membership seems happy to be members of a body, which has shown a total disregard for its memberships' wishes and democratic rights. If we were allowed to view the breakdown of proxy votes, by state/country, this issue of democratic rights, could be quickly laid to rest. The suspicion of proxy harvesting may be proven unfounded, what is there to hide?

It was rather embarrassing, to watch the row of suits up on stage, looking down with condescension, on the general membership, hiding behind the Corporations Act and the picking and choosing of parts of corporate legislation that most suited their case. Watching online, it felt like they were taking us all for fools and not embarrassed to do so in front of the press et al. What an image the CPA membership must present to Corporate Australia?

To hope, that members will vote with their feet and move across to CAANZ or IPA, is lost hope. Member apathy as proven that this will not happen in significant enough numbers. When the CPA designation, starts to lose its standing, due to the continued bad press and infighting and more members start to miss out on positions and promotions, the membership may develop a bigger appetite for change. But I would not hold my breath!

In regard to the online availability of the meeting:
Why were the cameras able to give us a total overview of the meeting room in breaks, displaying the screen behind the board clearly enough to read, but unable to do this when proxy votes and voting results were displayed? I also would have liked to see some of the members asking general questions, instead of not stop vision of Mr Peter Wilson and other members of the “silent” board, not sure if this was due to privacy concerns?

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