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ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:30 pm

Dave got a point! Outsourcing appears to be the problem! Having a committee does not address the problem!

My question is how long have they outsourced CPA Program? Has outsourcing CPA Program worked for the benefits of CPA?

CPA Program have scaling score which is awfully confusing and does not reflect performance. It merely shows bar graph for each topics / chapters which does not mean anything and does not explain where did the candidates go wrong etc. It is quite frustrating to be in CPA Program!

If it was found to be mishandled, then CPA candidates may sue CPA because it has ruined their chance of getting a good accounting job and getting good income! It seems to be a systematic problem!

passedfc
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 3:14 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by passedfc » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:54 am

CPA program outsourced ?? !!
I must be so far behind with what they are doing.
If the program is now outsourced CPA have less control over the delivery of the program. They have and EGM Education paid $400k, to I assume, look after the outsourced contract !the provider will of course be making a margin on each candidate.. passing is then made complicated, no feedback for candidates and the provider just wants churn and turnover.. CPA don't care..
So they have taken core business and outsourced it , added amazing layers of overpaid , under-performing "executives " appointed a psychopathic CEO,appointed a board who just want their $100K fees... two COOs who will say anything to appease the CEO and keep their jobs.... and an assitatant CFO .. countless other managers paid ridiculous salaries...
... now after being caught out ripping off all they can and being so incompetent that they can even complete a proper set of accounts ( let alone the dodgy advice entity !!).... they have insulted all with a " fiercely independent review"...
Really !!!! how much more is to come..
Bring on the EGM !!

Time4Change
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Time4Change » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:33 am

The only thing I can say, is the spill motion is a must, regarding exams and the CPA program, those are problems we can tackle after we regain our association. We need to get the constitution changed to give us members power, we need to get our PSC limited liability back for public practice to continue to operate. Directors and executive fees have to be cut, a full investigation for the past 10 years is a must, these are more priority at present.

Once all these are completed, we members might need to consider a few other accounting associations body to see, compare their screen criteria and to see where our screen criteria are present. I think it needs to be more robust and screen the right candidate in.

passedfc
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 3:14 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by passedfc » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:13 am

CPA program is outsourced to Pearson ( education).
So what motivates the CPA program.. margin and volume for Pearson.
Interesting article in Monday Age by Pallavi Singhai " The companies shaping Public Education"
Article expresses concern about companies contracted to develop programs and NAPLAN questions and materials. ( PEARSON)
Anna Hogan from QLD Uni says ".....increased focus on tests...... had done little to benefit students but had been profitable for private companies.."
The short comings of the CPA program may be driven by profit motive ?? A number of ASAs I have spoken with have large concerns aboutthe progrem and also very concerned about their future CPA designation. Without option to move to CA what are their options ??

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:59 pm

Now that the CPA Exam result is out

This time I have failed by virtue of scaled scoring system which does not reflect fairness and actual score. It has been in the past several attempts! I questioned why it has been happening! After my third failure for the same subject due to scaling score, I called CPA about it and asked why are they failing me in spite of all hard work and revision. They told me that they cannot review it due to "strict rigorous" program. They just told me that I should study harder, revise harder and attend tutorial. To add more insult, I did and it has not improved my score nor has helped to pass! Here is the problem since the introduction of computerised examination and scaled scoring system, there has been an increase in failure by candidates. There has been many candidates who tried very hard and still failed. They are being discouraged even several CPA principal are getting frustrated with the way CPA program is being run.

There are no chance of review of exam result which really put many people off from CPA program

Here is the link to "Understanding your exam result" and its extract

https://www.cpaaustralia.com.au/cpa-pro ... management

If you’re disappointed with your exam result

Though it can be unsettling when you’ve not performed as well as you had intended, it’s important to remember:

A scaled score indicates your exam performance more accurately, regardless of the exam paper you sat.
We recruit a panel of over 450 CPA and FCPA designated accounting professionals with specialist subject knowledge to assess exam papers. These professionals also ensure the content of our exams remains relevant to new developments in the profession each year.
Due to the rigorous procedures outlined above, we have a firm policy that we do not remark our exams.
If you have failed an exam, your Candidate Exam Report will demonstrate your performance against each of the modules tested. This will help you focus your study next time you attempt your exam. We also have extra resources available from our registered tuition partners to improve your probability of an improved exam result the next time you sit.

JWheldon
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by JWheldon » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:08 am

This is a great example of denial of natural justice. The CPA Australia way.

Another great example of how CPA Australia works under the management of Alex Malley. If you question something, then they tell you that it can not be reviewed, and there is no process of review. A clear example of a denial of natural justice. Even Uni's have a review or appeals process.

Welcome to Alex Malley's CPA business model. If you fail, then you have to do the course again and pay money again to do the course again.

Maybe the automated computer exam marker, keep saying "The computer says no".

I would suggest to seek more individual's that have also failed, and band together and start emailing Jeff Hughes COO membership, and Peter Docherty the general manager of CPA Australia and seeking a system of review and appeal. Maybe write an email to the board of CPA Australia and get them to change the system. Maybe write an email to Peter Wilson the chairman of CPA Australia. The more correspondence that they get, then they have to listen to the thousand of unhappy members and get Jeff Hughes and Peter Docherty to do something. No point asking the state presidents or committee members to help.

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:45 pm

Then how do we band these individuals who are being frustrated with the CPA program by virtue of repeated failures for specific subjects? I still failed just by mere 2 pts but in the past it was within 10 - 15 points short. In spite of dedicating myself to work hard to pass but still cannot get through. One remarked that she know the study guide inside out and still fail? This is quite puzzling to us.

CPA still hasn't addressed this problem to date! They still haven't shaken off Alex Malley's model which is repugnant to CPA members full and associates!

I am still feeling that I should give up pursuing completion of CPA. However, it is not my nature to give up!

How do we get several associates members to group together and make complaints to CPA regarding several issues with CPA Program especially the examination and high rates of failure?

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The Nude CPA
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Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by The Nude CPA » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:52 pm

Andcor wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:59 pm
This time I have failed by virtue of scaled scoring system which does not reflect fairness and actual score.

After my third failure for the same subject due to scaling score...
What subject?

How can you be sure that scaled scoring is the reason?

Isn't it possible that you sat a more difficult exam and your score was adjusted upwards under scaled scoring?

cpasteve
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 9:24 am

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by cpasteve » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:22 am

That's horrible Andcor. How disheartening. Keep your chin up.

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:33 pm

The Nude CPA wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:52 pm
Andcor wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:59 pm
This time I have failed by virtue of scaled scoring system which does not reflect fairness and actual score.

After my third failure for the same subject due to scaling score...
What subject?

How can you be sure that scaled scoring is the reason?

Isn't it possible that you sat a more difficult exam and your score was adjusted upwards under scaled scoring?
it was Strategic Management Accounting!

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nakedadmin
Site Admin
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Location: Iceland

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by nakedadmin » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:51 pm

Do a different subject. I think it's not a compulsory one right? You'd get no personal benefit from improving from 49 to 50.
The Naked Webmaster

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:58 pm

Strategic management accounting is one of the four compulsory subject!

What is CPA going to do about high failure rate? This is getting out of hand and has been for years!

JWheldon
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by JWheldon » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:42 pm

This a problem which CPA management, have no real idea , about how to solve, expect to recommend that you attend one of the authorised education providers, which costs more money. The quality of the product provided is poor, and reflected in the failure rates. The senior team at CPA Australia, require a refresh or major change to stop the continual decline.

The CPA Australia board and management team were happy to spend millions of dollars on a marketing strategy, which they did for many years at the same percentage, but not to review the programs and redirect funds to improving the education programs, the education manuals, and avenues to assist with questions which individuals undertaking those programs had. It sounds like a Uni, as seen on the ABC programs, which drives for targets and dollars.

The push into China, Vietnam and other countries, may not be as solid as it seems.

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:39 pm

I have been considering transferring to CA to complete the professional program as I keep on getting failures for the same subject which is Strategic Management Accounting. I know that I am not the only one with the same problem. My ASA status time is running out which is due to be cut off in June 2018! When I questioned CPA for repeat failures, I asked why is it that so? What is their answer? Study hard (that I have been doing), attend tutorial as provided through CPA program (I never attended due to cost and myself being located in SA where support are almost virtually none) and join study group etc. This does not address why I have been failing several times with almost identical score! This lead me to question the CPA program as there are many thing doesn't look right! Well, I found out what were the issue of CPA were and almost identical with Alex Malley's alleged misconduct at Macquarie University! This include making money out of thin air by misusing the system.

The recent IRP does not address the issue of CPA Program and they should have looked into! It is no use sweeping it under the carpet as there are many of us (hardworking people) who are affected by inconsistency and questionable practices in CPA Program! Surely they should provide remedy and compensation for it!

geoffrt0019
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:45 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by geoffrt0019 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:13 pm

It's simple... They get so much money from students failing cpa... The money is needed for 1st class air travel, sponsoring the bosses favourite sporting teams and billboards in Times Square promoting malley... Google CPA Australia Afr and see the truth.

JWheldon
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by JWheldon » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:01 am

It would be interesting if ICAANZ started to advertise their course being available to more accountants to undertake, and whether the numbers undertaking the institute course would increase. The ICAANZ course is harder then the CPA, as argued by many institute members and by members of CPA Australia that have undertaken the institute's course.

Look at the board members of CPA Australia, and the number of those individuals that originally trained under the Institute of Chartered Accountants Professional Year course. Maybe now the Institute has taken over the board of CPA Australia, that they will change the CPA course.

Also interesting that for many many many years, the argument about the status of the course under CPA Australian and the course under the Institute of Chartered Accountants has been ongoing. Most members of the institute would argue that their course is better in education and in overall training of the accountant. Yet the CPA Australia course has improved little and basically become a computer processed system.

The CPA course should be to develop to enhance the status of the accountant and the ability of the young accountant to perform their role.

To change from the CPA course to the ICAANZ Professional Year course is a big change. One would need to ensure that they can undertake the course under the ICAANZ requirements, and whether they have the support in completing the course over the required number of years.

Good luck with your decision.

Not_A_CPA
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Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:08 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Not_A_CPA » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:06 am

Andcor wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:58 pm
Strategic management accounting is one of the four compulsory subject!

What is CPA going to do about high failure rate? This is getting out of hand and has been for years!
What is CPA going to do about the high failure rate? Keep going as is. Being a CPA isn't a given, it takes hard work and CPA only pass and allow those who are capable to move to full membership.

Now the truth, if entry requirements are increased, CPA will reduce income from those unable to attempt the ASA courses. In conjunction a high failure rate means people will re-attempt. Funny, I have never known anyone to fail their first exam, anyone who mentions a CPA failure is doing their 2nd+ subject (so they have got you in their eco-system). I hate to say it, but read their mission statement;
Our Vision

CPA Australia is known for being the world’s best member service organisation.
Our Goal

To maximise the share of people who want a career built on professional accounting skills.
What about the betterment of the accounting profession? Failing anything is not a nice feeling and is a fact of life. You don't judge someone on a failure, you just them on their response. If someone fails and walks away, fine. If someone fails and strives to find out where they are going wrong and do better.....well CPA shut the door and say study harder. The program isn't about improving the profession and members, it is about lining pockets.

I for one have not renewed my membership. I am part of another organisation where I receive so much more relevant benefit to my work. No spam for discounted courses that "to increase your career opportunities....." I think I get less spam from Kogan than I do CPA.

End of rant, excuse me while I go sign up for the PD in Formatting Numbers in Excel 2013 offer I received today.

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:15 am

"What about the betterment of the accounting profession? Failing anything is not a nice feeling and is a fact of life. You don't judge someone on a failure, you just them on their response. If someone fails and walks away, fine. If someone fails and strives to find out where they are going wrong and do better.....well CPA shut the door and say study harder. The program isn't about improving the profession and members, it is about lining pockets."

What was said as from this paragraph is exactly correct! The way the CPA Program provided feedback to candidates in the last five years has been very lousy as they only show bar chart showing how they performed in specific modules which does not explain anything! This sort of feedback is misleading at best because it does not show us where we went wrong and how can we rectify it! This has prompted me to focus more on "weakness" but at the next exam despite all your efforts the bar chart doesn't reflect your performance but what the computer says so! This has caused me to question the integrity of the CPA Program. I even called CPA for clarification about feedback in bar charts. I questioned why I haven't "performed well" and the answers I got from them was that I need to work harder, go to tute etc. That is nothing but a slap in our faces despite all our efforts to pass it!

You are right that it is about lining the pockets, what Alex Malley did at Macquarie University has been transferred to CPA which is making students attend tutorial run by his wife and getting extra marks! I wondered if I needed to attend tutorial and get a pass mark in CPA. I refused to attend tutorial as this is a money making exercise by them as I cannot see how can I benefit from it due to lack of resources available in areas other than Sydney and Melbourne!

There are too many unanswered questions about CPA Program and they still haven't looked into it!

Andcor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by Andcor » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:16 am

Recently I have received an email from CPA outlining study options for candidates doing CPA Program.

https://www.cpaaustralia.com.au/cpa-pro ... nuary-2018

Of note I quote out of this webpage

"Our exclusive Australian partner PDL Academy provides a range of tuition services. This year they’ve removed the full-time tuition option in Australia, as we saw more candidates choosing to undertake their weekly classes – these classes are offered face-to-face in Melbourne and Sydney and online in all other locations. If you fall behind in your studies in semester, you can elect to undertake intensive revision – these consolidated study sessions help you cover the content with a tutor. If you want some specific exam assistance, consider exam preparation and practice tests to help you revise and prepare."

It appears that they are copying Alex Malley's method that were used in his previous tenure at Macquarie University. However, it is an insult to many candidates who failed because they did not attend the tutorial as provided by PDL and to top it off they do not provide tutorial outside Sydney and Melbourne. Even worse, they have registered tutors nationwide and I have noticed that they are NOT reliable at all!

Many of us candidates have no way of getting through the CPA Program with questionable assessment system in partnership with Deakin University!

JWheldon
Posts: 341
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Re: ABC - Entry exams and fail rates

Post by JWheldon » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:46 pm

Sounds like the CPA Program (AKA the repeat of Accounting Degree), should really be run via the university, who would offer lectures, and tutorials.



The Professional Year program run by Institute of Chartered Accountants Aust and NZ needs to be looked at by the CPA management and then incorporated into the CPA Program.

The PDL Academy, as raised by AFR 31 May 2017 - Rear Window Joe Aston
http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/cp ... 531-gwhhzo

CPA Australia spreads the love to key powerbrokers
"Until fairly recently the CPA program (completion of which begets the designation) was delivered to students by various semi-professional CPA member-teachers, who collected modest fees for the trouble. From 2010, CPA Australia introduced a formal accreditation process for course delivery and "qualified organisations" became "approved tuition providers". "

"But in 2014, CPA Australia conferred exclusive rights on one company, PDL Academy, thence "the only approved registered tuition provider for the CPA Program in Australia and globally online". "

"PDL is jointly owned by John Corrigan, with Chris and Janet Hudson. In 2014 (and in 2013 for that matter), Corrigan was a member of CPA Australia's Representative Council, whose sole codified role is to elect the board of CPA Australia. In every year from 2007 until 2014, Corrigan was also a member of the NSW Divisional Council, which elects two members of the Representative Council (in the final two years, one of which was himself). In 2007 and 2008, he served on that council with Malley."

"For a humble course provider, PDL sure has a complex ownership structure. Corrigan and the Hudsons started with a third partner, William Renwick. Along the way they picked up, then lost, another partner, Khalil Allahwala. Renwick left in 2014. Corrigan's stake is held by his Moorestone Group and Corrigan was previously a director in Moorestone, and in Business Associates Network Pty Ltd, with a Blake Wilson of Wahroonga. "

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It would be interesting to hear from the many young accountants, who are currently undertaking the CPA Program, what they think of the current CPA Program?

It would also be interesting to hear from those accountant who currently undertake the Professional Year (PY) with the Institute of Chartered Accountants Aust and NZ?

It would also be interesting to hear from those young CPA members, who are currently undertaking the CPA Public Practice course, and what they think of this course?

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