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CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

What kind of things would members actually want CPA Australia to focus on vs what are they actually doing
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WTF
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Location: Iceland, honestly..aren't we all????

CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by WTF » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:30 pm

For anybody that does not know:

I used the CPA insurance suggested for years..until now. I changed the policy over to another provider and was shocked when it was around 2/3 of the previous cost. I complimented the guy on the rate and he told me he used to work for a certain broker for insurance for CPA. Obviously his new company earns commission on the sale but the difference in premium was WHOLLY DUE to the difference CPA received!!! I wouldn't dream of accusing anyone of receiving undisclosed commission..and I am sure that somewhere in the 4000 pages of documentation, it is disclosed. As we all know, the society (am I allowed to call it that still :roll: ) always meets minimum disclosure requirements!

So yep, around 1/3 of your CPA endorsed PI premium apparently goes to CPA, not the insurer! A cost which would appear to be passed on to you, directly.

Just another part of their outstanding service to members in an endeavour to become (what was it now?) "the world's best member services organisation"

Anyone who still uses the CPA insurance, I would suggest contacting other insurers and checking rates...your mileage may vary....

WTF indeed!
góðan dag,

WTF



Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!

Shaun
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by Shaun » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:47 pm

I've just had a look at my policy document and can't see ANY disclosure regarding a commission to CPA Australia.

I always assumed they'd get a clip off the 10%~ brokerage but can't see anything about them receiving anything from QBE.

Seems very underhanded if its true.

WTF
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Location: Iceland, honestly..aren't we all????

Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by WTF » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:24 pm

Shaun,

Here in Iceland, people are not inclined to make straight out accusations that may cause legal action elsewhere in the world...I'm just commenting on my experience ;)

But sounds like it may be of benefit for you to shop around.
góðan dag,

WTF



Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!

Erin Brockovich CPA
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by Erin Brockovich CPA » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:01 pm

I've never thought that CPA Australia get's a kick back. The broker commission is not that much on my invoice so not so much to play with there. Also the other component is labelled "premium" and stamp duty is applied to that amount.

But I wonder much money CPA Australia makes from "member benefits". If true it's a total conflict of interest. Can't be sued for saying that, any legal action would be purely vexatious.

góðan dag to everyone!

WTF
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by WTF » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:53 pm

Erin,

Yes, the "commission" is small but the premium was significantly less from the "no name brand" and I was told that this difference found it's way to CPA Australia one way or another. It would be interesting to see the arrangements between the actual underwriter and CPA or other parties.

Recovery of admin costs, underwriter payments for "other services", "kickbacks", "finders fees" are all ways that money is sent to third parties by insurance companies around the world. I'm not saying any particular one is legal/illegal/immoral/warranted/unwarranted or is the case here. But the guy was unequivocal that the 1/3 of end user cost was going to our friends at the Alex Malley Tap-Dancing Review. And THAT markup on where I could get insurance elsewhere...and in anyone's language THAT situation is kjaftæði !!
góðan dag,

WTF



Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!

manyoman
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by manyoman » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:30 pm

Dear fellow posters,

I honestly do not think there should be any problem in doing so as my PI will be due in a few months and to save me some time could you name the insurance company / broker that you ended up using.

thanks

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Better Call Saul
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by Better Call Saul » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:30 am

There is nothing stopping you using an alternative underwriter as long as it meets the required coverage of the CPA and TPB.

Please share the name of the Underwriter as I will consider my provider as well.

Public Accountant
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by Public Accountant » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:58 am

I use http://www.indemnitysols.com.au/ as the policy is written with Loyds.

sjc431
Posts: 41
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by sjc431 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:58 pm

And it is supposed to be a "benefit to members"?
They really are going hard on the fees and charges
If they ceased the self-indulgent tripe marketing of Alex "Billboards" Malley maybe they could afford to provide ACTUAL benefits to members?
You know, like a cheaper or at least competitive PI insurance offer?

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Brett Stevenson
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by Brett Stevenson » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:20 pm

I think this is a clear case of CPA Australia needing to be upfront and transparent with the members.
Surely the Board can very easily clarify whether CPA Australia receive kickbacks from insurance premiums paid by members?
Two members have sent me emails saying they have knowledge of this from their brokers.
Surely this is the sort of double dealing we might imagine with other organisations and groups, but for our own member based organisation I think if it is true then some heads need to roll and the board need to affirm what their policy and directions are to CPA staff. Surely that is one of the reasons we pay of membership dues, for the CPA Australia staff to negotiate great PI rates. I hardly think CPA Australia need to be receiving kickbacks. All the benefits should flow to the members directly via their reduced premiums.
Perhaps members need to raise this with their divisional councillors and take not of their response, because it really does need a firm answer from the CPA board.

WTF
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by WTF » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:23 pm

G'day all,

I am part relieved, part disgusted and not a little disappointed that there is someone else out there with the same experience. I had hoped (against all reasonable hope, let's face it) that this was an anomaly and not yet another example of our "society" (yes, that old fashioned word again!!) gouging us.

My insurer is easily found, they provide Tax Audit Insurance as well. I won't post exact figures, because of confidentiality concerns in a semi public forum.. but an example would be:

2016 CPA Australia, Fenton Green... $3,525
2017 New crowd ..... $2,689.

That is the order of things, in any case.

Let me re-iterate that I was told directly and definitely by the ex employee that the actual premiums were, apart from CPA involvement, NO cheaper with his firm. I was told this AFTER I had agreed to purchase the policy and NOT as an inducement.

I ONLY ever used the CPA endorsed policy for the fact that THEY endorsed it. I assumed that it would be AT LEAST competitive with other policies. My fault there... but absolutely disgusting to be gouged by your "member services" to go towards financing the Alex Malley Tap-Dancing Review.
góðan dag,

WTF



Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!

Johnnysmithqwer
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by Johnnysmithqwer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:02 pm

Hi all,

First time poster but i thought this was the best place to post this (please move/ advise if i am wrong).

In the By-Laws, its states minimum PII insurance is $1mil.

On the website it says $2mil.

clause (9.8 from memory (c)(i)(C.)) it states "any sum from time to time prescribed by the Board either generally or in any particular instance;", and after speaking to the person at CPA i understood this as "Whatever we say it is, goes".....so if they put it up to $10mil on the webtsite....we all have to increase no matter what if we want to keep our PPC. I also dont remember the board prescribing this change....im probably wrong on that, but still.

Keep in mind to be registered by TPB is it a lot lower.....so am i paying CPA? or am i protecting myself and my practice? im unsure. Also being that the minimum was $1mil last year, and i expect a lot to be on this....then a lot will find they need to consider this BEFORE they reapply for a PPC otherwise i worry about additional fees. (There is now a $55 charge that i think is new for a limited liability scheme?)

Also i know this is a stupid question, but do i really even need CPA PPC? or is there others i can get? Everytime ive asked this question to CPA i get the answer that i do, and when i ask why, they all tell me "because you just do".....

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GenYCPA
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by GenYCPA » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:20 pm

Hi Johnnysmithqwer. Welcome to the forum.

Here is the details from CPA for the public practice certificate:
public-practice-pathways.pdf
(355.21 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
The $2 million is the minimum amount required by our professional standards limited liability scheme. CPA Australia does not sell PI Insurance but they do refer members to PI insurers (and presumably receive a commission). The $55 annual charge is for participation in the limited liability scheme.

If you provide public accounting services in Australia and earn more than $10,000 gross in fees each year, you must hold a Public Practice Certificate.

If you are a member of CPA Australia and provide public accounting services into Australia or New Zealand you need to be of CPA status and hold a public practice certificate (PPC), no matter where in the world you are located.

This requirement also forms part of the access to the professional standards limited liability scheme.

The other major accounting bodies in Australia have their own public practice certificates.
Robert McDowall CPA | Partner | Arabon Accountants
CPA Australia Queensland Divisional Councillor

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-mcdowall/
Join the conversation on the CPA Members Group on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/groups/103561

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nakedadmin
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by nakedadmin » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:46 am

Here's the proof finally out.

http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 623-gwx3nn

They get a commission from QBE. And what cheeses me off is that they expect us to disclose commissions as it could boas advice. Not to mention the anti commission stance, even anti asset based fees stance that they take with CPAA Advice. Hypocrites!
The Naked Webmaster

WTF
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Location: Iceland, honestly..aren't we all????

Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by WTF » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:51 pm

One wonders, idly ("idly" again?? I obviously have too much time on my hands) whether we will be seeing a Pro Rata credit of the $55 fee for limited liability schemes... now that they have %^$%^&*^&* THEM up for us too?
góðan dag,

WTF



Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!

WTF
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Location: Iceland, honestly..aren't we all????

Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by WTF » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:11 pm

Just got my renewal... 24% increase on last year...why...because I am a CPA and they broke the Liability Limit scheme. Simple as that!

So once again, being a CPA costs me much more money than it should!!

But get this.. the premium is STILL 10% cheaper than CPA two years ago!


"Best Member service organisation in the world"?? My big fat Icelandic arse!
góðan dag,

WTF



Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!

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nakedadmin
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Re: CPA Prof Indemnity Insurance Rates!

Post by nakedadmin » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:15 am

Nice signature:
Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who get kicked out of teaching, run Accounting Societies, OR... get paid $5m to get kicked out of running Accounting Societies!
I think it should finish with ... Those that can't run accounting societies get paid $5m to do nothing because that's really the last option.
The Naked Webmaster

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