Merry Christmas to Peter Wilson. When it was suggested that Peter Wilson should be independent of the old board so that we can have a fresh start Peter responded with "That's your issue". Summary of the meeting here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=594
A good summary of where we are up to by Joe Aston of the AFR, linked to from here: viewtopic.php?f=5&p=4137#p4137
If you are new to this website read the story so far: viewtopic.php?t=321#p1793
Check out some of the AFR articles, too many to list and check out some of the ABC reports: http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 215-h055ej http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/ ... 211-h02x1d http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/the ... s,/8626662
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CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

What kind of things would members actually want CPA Australia to focus on vs what are they actually doing
perthcpa
Posts: 15
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by perthcpa » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:05 pm

WTF wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:59 pm
What these bastards forget is that some of us have been around for a long time....

When the Gov first started to make this stupid system where Financial Advisors supposedly know enough about tax to advise but accountants DON'T know enough about investment to advise(BTW, I've never sold an investment in my life, so this isn't sour grapes), CPA Australia stabbed us in the back by NOT opposing it..PRECISELY because they thought they could rope in investment advisors and start something like this.

It took the Chartered Institute a whole 5 seconds to work out that it wasn't a good idea and THEY opposed it from the start. Then when members made it clear to CPA, they switched tack and started to oppose it MUCH too late.

Fade dissolve to a time when the system is in place and the rocket surgeons at CPA start an investment arm DESPITE having had fair warning that it wouldn't work. Then, surprise surprise, only 26-28 take it up! In the famous words of my 3 year old niece.. der-brain!!!!

Over the last thirty five years I have seen CPA Australia stab its own membership in the back more times than I care to count. I've seen it go from a PROFESSIONAL Society to a bunch of overpaid, bespectacled, marketing whores with bovine excrement for brains and with the morals and business ethics
of Enron execs.

And it is not restricted to the current mob of sheep either. Some of us are old enough to remember when previous administrators were caught out accelerating income and deferring expenses in the annual accounts to HIDE a loss..WITH, on that occasion as well, the complicity of the auditor d'jour.
Wow I thought I was prone to flowery language to describe the lack of insightful thinking that seems to prevail at CPA Australia. Must confess, I am also an older member (30 years+) and you do start it get frustrated with the arrogance and evidence of lack of intelligence of more than a few people working for CPA Australia.

perthcpa
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by perthcpa » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:13 pm

JWheldon wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:53 pm
I call upon all accounting university lecturers, professors and tutors, to start contributing articles in accounting here upon this site, so that reasonable discussions about actual accounting issues can be undertaken. There are so many research papers which raise serious concerns about the effectiveness of the financial reporting in the accounting industry, but no real manner to collectively discuss them. The "InTheBlack" magazine certainly is not an accounting magazine any more, nor is it an avenue for effective discussion about issues in accounting. CPA Australia pays so many consultants, yet the actual accounting information appear limited.

Issues concerning the declaration of "True and fair" in the Not For Profit set of accounts. The True and Fair declaration by Mark Stretton from Deloitte's in the CPA Australia annual financial accounts is very questionable, given all the issues raised by member on this site and by the accounting industry in general.

Issues concerning the effectiveness of the audit undertaken for a large Not For Profit organisation like CPA Australia. Is it not about time to review the type of audits undertaken for these large Not For Profit ogranisations? There appears to be a diminishing confidence within the community with regards to the function and audits being undertaken, given the many serious problems raised over the years like the Health Service Union and RSL NSW. Are these types of audits really worth the money?

Issues concerning whether a regular Quality Assurance review of the operation of CPA Australia is required. given it not the auditor's role, in the performance of their audit function.

Issues concerning the consolidated accounting reports, which the international federation, and the major accounting boards are pressing for, seems to fail the principle ideals of accounting, which is to provide financial accounts which meet the needs of the principle users.

Issues concerning the notes to account, and the effectiveness of the accounting standards, and the how those notes have no clear relevance to either the profit and loss statement, nor the balance sheet.

Issues concerning disclosure of remuneration and Key Management Personnel. If CPA Australia has problems even following AASB 124 Related Party Disclosure, then what hope for the rest of the accounting industry? Is it because the standards are poorly drafted? The Australian Accounting Standards Board, along with all the other boards need to serious review all the accounting standards, and improve the disclosure. If the President of CPA Australia advise the members, that they have met the minimum accounting standards, then what hope for the next generation of accountants.

Issues concerning consolidated cash flow statements, which provide little real information for accounting analysis.

Issues concerning the responsibility for accounting and disclosure under the corporation law.
Had this discussion the other day. in a world where there is growing evidence that the price of listed shares have much more to do market perceptions, monetary stimulus and news, fake or otherwise who is looking at general purpose financial reports anyway. In a world of instant information the good old financial report may be just that - old and increasingly irrelevant information.

perthcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:03 pm

Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by perthcpa » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:13 pm

Had this discussion the other day. in a world where there is growing evidence that the price of listed shares have much more to do market perceptions, monetary stimulus and news, fake or otherwise who is looking at general purpose financial reports anyway. In a world of instant information the good old financial report may be just that - old and increasingly irrelevant information.

JWheldon
Posts: 352
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by JWheldon » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:12 pm

You make an interesting point, but the problem is that the financial reports, are so compressed, and to the average individual too difficult to understand, and therefore give up. The basic principles of accounting are done away with, for the so called cut and paste accounting, which produces ineffective reports and consolidated results, which are not supported by the notes to accounts. Additions to the notes to the accounts, as a result of the accounting standards, throw more questions about the results produced. Event the cash flow statements produced are just categories, which overall provide little information for analysis.

The internet, does provide opportunity for detailed actual financial accounts for users to review, and not a lengthy printed hard copy document, which has small print and requires a police investigator to look through and explain what happened at the crime scene.

Even the general community has little confidence in the audit reports produced. Even the members of CPA Australia, have grave concerns about the audit report prepared, and its an accounting organisation.

There used to be a principle that financial reports are prepared to provide users with information about the reporting entity which is useful for making and evaluating decisions about the allocation of scare resources. Have attached the old statement of accounting concepts, for individuals to look at. At paragraph 40 " Reporting entities are all entities (including economic entities) in respect of which is is reasonable to expect the existence of users dependent on general financial reports for information which will be useful to them for making and evaluating decisions about the allocation of scare resources"

The accounting industry is supposed to be providing information for effective analysis, yet those end users have no effective voice and therefore give up and don't even look at the reports. This is good for management like those at CPA Australia, but poor for the principles of accounting.

The management at CPA Australia, have yet to explain to the members, how their so called minimum accounting reports are useful to the end users, which in this case are professional accountants. They seem to be under some type of impression, that if your provide the so called minimum required accounting reports, that the members of this Not-For Profit, will look at the bottom line profit and be very pleased. Yet CPA Australia's accounts, are supposed to provide important financial information for review, which enables the end users, the ability to determine how the resources are used, ask questions if required, and hold those in management positions accountable, or provide different options.

Those individuals on the relevant accounting boards, have forgot what they are supposed to be doing, that is improving the preparation of accounting reports for the end users, and not accounting reports, which are of a minimum standard, and do not even met requirements of the ultimate users. Lets not forget the end users are not the directors or the board.

The large Not-For Profits have got away with this minimum account preparation for years. Who is going to make them change? The end user are not able too, and the government has had little reason to change the law to enforce change, even after the many scandals, like RSL NSW, HSU and CPA Australia. The relevant accounting boards have representatives from IPA, ICAANZ and CPA, and receive millions of dollars, to do lots of research, with very little effective results. It is interesting, how the current CPA Australia Board, have directors who are also directors/board members on the other relevant accounting boards. It is like one big club, which the jobs are passed around to a very small few, who motives are questionable. Is it also interesting how the old CPA Australia Presidents end up on all these other boards and receive large remunerations for little results. The end result in the last thirty years has been very slow, and therefore very slow for those for which the accounting information is most important, the end users.

Those individuals with no or little accounting understanding, look at the financial reports produced by listed companies, and then the Not-For Profit Sector (including Unions) and the superannuation industry and get totally lost due to the complexity. Lets not forget that those individuals on the relevant accounting boards, both here in Australia and internationally are pushing for even more consolidated and compressed accounts. They believe that the users want less, or have poor knowledge. The end result will be even less information, and most likely a total revenue and total expenses and a net result or loss and a summaries balance sheet, with notes to accounts which are like reading a different language and have little or no connection to the Profit and Loss and Balance sheet produced. Its a great result for the board/directors of organisations, but a total failure for the end users.

If the end user does not understand the information provided to them, and only a very small number of individuals understand the results produced, then the accounting principles have not been followed, but thrown out the window.
Attachments
SAC1_8-90_2001V - Definition of Reporting Entity.pdf
(35.43 KiB) Downloaded 48 times

Magnet
Posts: 65
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Magnet » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:09 pm

I have only just noticed a website for CPA Australia Advice.

Is this a new venture??

Seems like the board are carrying on full steam ahead with it.

https://www.cpaaustraliaadvice.com.au/

It also appears the they have had the Constitution of CPA Advice amended by lawyers king & Wood Mallersons on 28 September 2017, so the are being active!

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nakedadmin
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by nakedadmin » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:45 pm

Well spotted. Dated 28 Sep! Last act of the old board.

The change seems to be to reduce the minimum number of Directors from 4 to 2. Now why would that be needed on 28 Sep? Could it not be left for the new Directors 2 days later?
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chuck_meister
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:58 am

Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by chuck_meister » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:18 am

Reading through the amended constitution.

13. Capitalisation of Profits (ie issue of shares). I really snorted here, surely with the current situation they should have deleted this entire section!

A bit confused about indemnity for legal costs.

In the event that action is taken by ASIC/new CPA board against the former directors, CPA would have to pay to defend them as well? (a) and (b) seem somewhat contradictory.

As the whole subsidiary is pretty much trading as insolvent. Huge operating losses, inability to ever pay back the $20M loan,

15.1 Indemnity
The Company will indemnify any current or former Director or Secretary of the
Company out of the property of the Company against:
(a) any liability incurred by the person in that capacity (except a liability for
legal costs);
(b) legal costs incurred in defending or resisting (or otherwise in connection
with) proceedings, whether civil or criminal or of an administrative or
investigatory nature, in which the person becomes involved because of
that capacity; and
(c) legal costs incurred in good faith in obtaining legal advice on issues
relevant to the performance of their functions and discharge of their
duties as an officer of the Company or a subsidiary, if that expenditure
has been approved in accordance with the Company’s policy,
except to the extent that:
(d) the Company is forbidden by law to indemnify the person against the
liability or legal costs; or
(e) an indemnity by the Company of the person against the liability or legal
costs, if given, would be made void by law

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Brett Stevenson
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Brett Stevenson » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:45 pm

One should always be wary of constitutional changes days before board changes, and it would seem with CPAA Australia Advice that wariness is well founded.
They stuff up big time, they reward themselves at scandalous levels, and then try to skulk away with some sort of legal protection.
I suggest the new board go in hard. My lay view is that you can't provide legal protection for some directors duty breaches. Methinks that is a problem for them.
I think the law will override the constitution in this case especially if a major breach of duty. And the directors who approved this change think this is okay corporate governance.
I hardly think CPA should be indemnifying directors of a fully owned subsidiary if they have committed major breaches of their directors duty such that criminal or civil charges arise. Presumably they have D&O Insurance as per normal. But to make a constitutional change in the dying days of their terms does raise some alarm bells.

Steve Hamilton
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Steve Hamilton » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:51 am

I'm not surprised by this. Surely the remaining two old guard directors should resign immediately!

I watched the Senate committee where Dickerson claimed everything was up to the new board! Obviously except for changing the constitution of CPAA Advice to cover their own arses. Back to the old chestnut...... integrity, or lack thereof. The fish rots from the head.

This new board are sitting there doing nothing substantial yet, using the IRP final report as a cover.

Unfortunately this action backs up my decision to jump ship as soon as I can. The previous people in charge at board level have failed in their duties as directors. I only hope that over the next couple of years ASIC takes them to court and gets them banned. I know not much chance of that......

JWheldon
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by JWheldon » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:32 am

CPA Australia Advice Pty Ltd ACN 606 084 806 ABN 21 606 084 806
Has had an update on 6 October 2017 with regards to change to company details appointment/company officeholder.

So which directors are left???
Attachments
CPA Australia Advice Pty Ltd - extract 30-10-17 basic.pdf
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Magnet
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Magnet » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:39 am

You would think that that there would have been an announcement from head office for such a change right???

Disgrace 101
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Disgrace 101 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:20 am

Agree with Brett - in the case of breaches of law, breach of directors duties etc, the constitutional changes aren’t worth the paper they are written on - you can not contract out of the law!

Admittatedly the constitutional changes pass all the legal costs of the directors defending themselves back to CPAA Advice. Surely the new directors need to and will re-amend this constitution appropriately.

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Red_Ferrari
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Red_Ferrari » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:00 pm

.
How charming. Now we know why a couple of directors decided to stay on until NY eve before they resigned. This is what the email we received on 28.9.17 said: "To assist with business continuity, current directors Jim Dickson and Sharon Portelli will stay on the refreshed board with the nine new directors until 31 December this year. "

How do we access the new and old versions of the constitution, so that we can locate exactly what was changed by these shining examples of corporate governance?

Magnet
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by Magnet » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:23 pm

Red_Ferrari wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:00 pm
.


How do we access the new and old versions of the constitution, so that we can locate exactly what was changed by these shining examples of corporate governance?
Here's the link to the updated constitution...

https://www.cpaaustraliaadvice.com.au/~ ... .pdf?la=en

Not sure how we can access the older version.

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nakedadmin
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by nakedadmin » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:02 pm

Here is the old version. I downloaded it in June.
Attachments
cpa-advice-constitution.pdf
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JWheldon
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by JWheldon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:26 pm

CPA Australia Board need to take immediate action with regards to CPA Australia Advice.

If Suzanne Haddan and Graeme Wade and Michele Dolin are still directors of CPA Australia Advice, then the current board of CPA Australia need to replace them immediately or shut this loss making entity down.

chuck_meister
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by chuck_meister » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:58 am

You know that CPA Advice is such a basket case that the IR simply washed their hands of it and weaseled out by throwing it back to CPA to do a "Post Implementation Review". It's like a burning house and CPA will be discussing how the fire started and how we can prevent the fire starting in the future, rather than just putting the fire out.

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nakedadmin
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by nakedadmin » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:46 am

Yeah, a review that says do a review. I think it's management speak for shut it down.

If I was a CPA Australia Director I would not accept a directorship on CPAA Advice.

They should revoke the indemnity for the CPAA Advice Directors and they should then revoke the $20m loan or what is left of it.

Then set the CPAA Advice Director fees to $0 which I think the parent company can do as per the CPAA Advice constitution.
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JWheldon
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Re: CPA Australia's CPA Advice Programme

Post by JWheldon » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:42 pm

Members with CPA Advice, numbers are now 35 advisers. Still would have made a loss during the 2017 calendar year.

https://data.gov.au/dataset/asic-financ ... 127dbbc869

CPA Australia Advice Pty Ltd ABN 21 606 084 806, AFSL No. 482657 ...

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